Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: BH TEF AND CLOAKING
Puttley wrote:
it does all kinda baffle me somewhat. a Power or enhancer jedi can always run and a Defender jedi is close to impossible to beat in 1v1. an uber laser rifle on a M.BH/M.Rilfe VS M.def hits for only 600pts per shot - thats every 2 or 3 seconds with critical shot! with jedi healer 4xxx they heal for 1500 every 6 seconds? now what hope is there - they are almost unbeatable in any straight fight or they will run and will almost always get away? would i be wrong to hope that a full temp padi is 1.5 times as good as a full temp BH might mean a 1v1 fight is BH 2 Vs Jedi 3??
a) You have the first strike. You can start the fight when you see you have an advantage. This advantage is what will help you overcome that 1 to 1.5 rating.
b) Even if he heals for 1500 every 6 seconds, it costs him Force. A Jedi can regenerate Force faster than he can use it on Force Infusion, but if he actually has to use Force Heal, he will run out of Force eventually (or need to channel to get back some of his Force, lowering his health). You cannot kill a Master Defender by getting his health to 0, you need to take his Force and then his health becomes vulnerable. So force the Jedi to heal often and you will win eventually - having a high min damage on your rifle helps making a Master Defender heal himself.
c) As already stated, a cloaker cannot cloak if you stay within 20m and an Enhancer cannot run if you have enough crowd control (roots / snares / KD).
Cloak is fine as is for the most part (without the exploits). If you really have a problem then you are not picking the correct time to attack the jedi. Do you attack a Cloaker in the middle of no where with nothing surrounding them? If you do you better have a friend there that will /follow the Jedi so they can't cloak.
Best time to strike at a Cloaking Jedi is in a city. There is no way they can easily manuver around. Heck you could actually ask for assistance by telling people to stay around the Jedi so you have enough time to kill him/her.
I think the problem people are having is they are not being very tactical. No matter how much whining there has been on these boards, having first strike is HUGE.....specially now that Jedi no longer has 85% block. There have been posts on this board explaining just how good BH's use first stirke and it gives them a very good success rate.
Now to the original poster, obvoiusly this went on for a long while as you stated the Jedi was being buffed by a friend. Well why didn't you call in a friend to hlep /follow the mark so he could not cloak? I know that would have been the first thing I did once the Jedi cloaked/regen/de-cloaked.
LintonLisa wrote:cloak is a huge investment of skills, any jedi with cloak is much much weaker in pvp than most other jedi. The only advantage they have is being able to run.
Its a combat ability, why remove it?
If a Jedi wants to use it to run it can be vey frustrationg for the BH, BUT I'll agree it is a valid escape tactic. However, to use it as a "mobile house" so they can regen Force and get "re-buffed" to re-fight a battle they already lost once (well "lost" enough that they had to "run).
I personally would have pulled out a speeder and a creature mount as well as anything I could to cause the force to drain. Then applied some CM DOTs that will still "tick" while the Jedi is cloaked.
If you want to use Claok to escape, then the Jedi should do JUST that.
Eskie wrote:
laodamas wrote:
Best thing I could see happening to cloak is make it a total escape tactic. What I mean by this is a Jedi can not regen force while cloaked. No natural regen, no channeling or meditation. Cloak should allow a Jedi to escape, not a means of stopping a fight so she/he can regen for round two. If a Jedi channels or meditates while cloaked it should drop cloak and have a timer before it can be reactivated. This would allow a Jedi to escape to a safe area to lose TEF and then regen. If a Jedi can not beat you and has to cloak to regen what is the point. When she/he comes back you will have regened all your pools as well, plus cleared some filling for more food. So it's just starting from scratch. If they were gonna lose the first time it probably wont change the second time.
In GCW battles you can take down cloakers easily since they lack defenses and a rifle salvo from 3 or 4 rifleman easily drops them.
For BH / Jedi encounters you miss the point entirely. A cloaker will not come back to fight the BH if he used cloak to escape. The BH needs to chase him and engage him again - why would a Jedi come back to be slaughtered.
If the Jedi used cloak as a counter to being rooted / kited, the BH who stays until the Jedi decloaks right next to him to land a KD / Armor Break / Power Hit / Head Hit combo deserves to die. Better run in the opposite direction next time when a Jedi manages to cloak - it could have been to negate the first strike capability of the BH.
If you read the op he describes a situation where the Jedi cloaks, regens and then attacks again. This does happen, but not all Jedi use it in that manner. My idea of how cloak would work would not change anything to a Jedi who runs with no intention of re-engaging his attacker. He would escape to safety, uncloak in a safe area and regen. It would also not effect the ability to gank a cloaker before he can cloak. All it would change is the described scenario in the op. What it would do is define cloak as a method of escape. Basically the same as the change to AI to make it a last stand, win or lose special, it just defines it's role.
Before anyone asks, I am a Master Defender and have only used AI in a fight to the death role. Have never used AI as a means of escape in a PvP encounter, only used it a few times in the early days of curb as a PvE escape tool, but was still testing what lvl of mobs could be handled solo.I do not have cloak, nor do I have a problem with the way cloak works now. Just tossed out an idea based on the op.
Yea and I can't wait for those wars to start again when the bounties come on smugglers..lmao Bh's will be crying nerf to that too.
yatyas91 wrote:
Its a combat ability, why remove it?
____________________________________________
So was feign death.
laodamas wrote:
Eskie wrote:
laodamas wrote:
Best thing I could see happening to cloak is make it a total escape tactic. What I mean by this is a Jedi can not regen force while cloaked. No natural regen, no channeling or meditation. Cloak should allow a Jedi to escape, not a means of stopping a fight so she/he can regen for round two. If a Jedi channels or meditates while cloaked it should drop cloak and have a timer before it can be reactivated. This would allow a Jedi to escape to a safe area to lose TEF and then regen. If a Jedi can not beat you and has to cloak to regen what is the point. When she/he comes back you will have regened all your pools as well, plus cleared some filling for more food. So it's just starting from scratch. If they were gonna lose the first time it probably wont change the second time.
In GCW battles you can take down cloakers easily since they lack defenses and a rifle salvo from 3 or 4 rifleman easily drops them.
For BH / Jedi encounters you miss the point entirely. A cloaker will not come back to fight the BH if he used cloak to escape. The BH needs to chase him and engage him again - why would a Jedi come back to be slaughtered.
If the Jedi used cloak as a counter to being rooted / kited, the BH who stays until the Jedi decloaks right next to him to land a KD / Armor Break / Power Hit / Head Hit combo deserves to die. Better run in the opposite direction next time when a Jedi manages to cloak - it could have been to negate the first strike capability of the BH.
If you read the op he describes a situation where the Jedi cloaks, regens and then attacks again. This does happen, but not all Jedi use it in that manner. My idea of how cloak would work would not change anything to a Jedi who runs with no intention of re-engaging his attacker. He would escape to safety, uncloak in a safe area and regen. It would also not effect the ability to gank a cloaker before he can cloak. All it would change is the described scenario in the op. What it would do is define cloak as a method of escape. Basically the same as the change to AI to make it a last stand, win or lose special, it just defines it's role.Before anyone asks, I am a Master Defender and have only used AI in a fight to the death role. Have never used AI as a means of escape in a PvP encounter, only used it a few times in the early days of curb as a PvE escape tool, but was still testing what lvl of mobs could be handled solo. I do not have cloak, nor do I have a problem with the way cloak works now. Just tossed out an idea based on the op.
The problem is that Force Wielders rely on hit and run attacks because they dont have the offensive capabilities lightsabers have nor do they have a lot of Defender because Powers usually relies on Enhancers to make up the higher Force costs of attacks. They need cloak to be useable in the exact way the original poster described.
Tucheck wrote:
LintonLisa wrote:cloak is a huge investment of skills, any jedi with cloak is much much weaker in pvp than most other jedi. The only advantage they have is being able to run.
Its a combat ability, why remove it?
If a Jedi wants to use it to run it can be vey frustrationg for the BH, BUT I'll agree it is a valid escape tactic. However, to use it as a "mobile house" so they can regen Force and get "re-buffed" to re-fight a battle they already lost once (well "lost" enough that they had to "run).
I personally would have pulled out a speeder and a creature mount as well as anything I could to cause the force to drain. Then applied some CM DOTs that will still "tick" while the Jedi is cloaked.
If you want to use Claok to escape, then the Jedi should do JUST that.
Everything fair game except the CM DOT stuff. Applying CM DOTs after a Jedi cloaked is exploiting.
smartest thing for a jedi to do is cloak and run.
You act like that is going to change their minds. Some folks don't want an even fight. They'd just be happier if we stood there and took the DB without a struggle.
Eskie wrote:
laodamas wrote:
Eskie wrote:
laodamas wrote:
Best thing I could see happening to cloak is make it a total escape tactic. What I mean by this is a Jedi can not regen force while cloaked. No natural regen, no channeling or meditation. Cloak should allow a Jedi to escape, not a means of stopping a fight so she/he can regen for round two. If a Jedi channels or meditates while cloaked it should drop cloak and have a timer before it can be reactivated. This would allow a Jedi to escape to a safe area to lose TEF and then regen. If a Jedi can not beat you and has to cloak to regen what is the point. When she/he comes back you will have regened all your pools as well, plus cleared some filling for more food. So it's just starting from scratch. If they were gonna lose the first time it probably wont change the second time.
In GCW battles you can take down cloakers easily since they lack defenses and a rifle salvo from 3 or 4 rifleman easily drops them.
For BH / Jedi encounters you miss the point entirely. A cloaker will not come back to fight the BH if he used cloak to escape. The BH needs to chase him and engage him again - why would a Jedi come back to be slaughtered.
If the Jedi used cloak as a counter to being rooted / kited, the BH who stays until the Jedi decloaks right next to him to land a KD / Armor Break / Power Hit / Head Hit combo deserves to die. Better run in the opposite direction next time when a Jedi manages to cloak - it could have been to negate the first strike capability of the BH.
If you read the op he describes a situation where the Jedi cloaks, regens and then attacks again. This does happen, but not all Jedi use it in that manner. My idea of how cloak would work would not change anything to a Jedi who runs with no intention of re-engaging his attacker. He would escape to safety, uncloak in a safe area and regen. It would also not effect the ability to gank a cloaker before he can cloak. All it would change is the described scenario in the op. What it would do is define cloak as a method of escape. Basically the same as the change to AI to make it a last stand, win or lose special, it just defines it's role.
Before anyone asks, I am a Master Defender and have only used AI in a fight to the death role. Have never used AI as a means of escape in a PvP encounter, only used it a few times in the early days of curb as a PvE escape tool, but was still testing what lvl of mobs could be handled solo. I do not have cloak, nor do I have a problem with the way cloak works now. Just tossed out an idea based on the op.
The problem is that Force Wielders rely on hit and run attacks because they dont have the offensive capabilities lightsabers have nor do they have a lot of Defender because Powers usually relies on Enhancers to make up the higher Force costs of attacks. They need cloak to be useable in the exact way the original poster described.
If we have to run through a crowded area and cant regen cloak becomes useless so take away regen and take away FC while cloaked.
You cant have it just your way.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
You act like that is going to change their minds. Some folks don't want an even fight. They'd just be happier if we stood there and took the DB without a struggle.
Eskie wrote:
laodamas wrote:
Eskie wrote:
laodamas wrote:
Best thing I could see happening to cloak is make it a total escape tactic. What I mean by this is a Jedi can not regen force while cloaked. No natural regen, no channeling or meditation. Cloak should allow a Jedi to escape, not a means of stopping a fight so she/he can regen for round two. If a Jedi channels or meditates while cloaked it should drop cloak and have a timer before it can be reactivated. This would allow a Jedi to escape to a safe area to lose TEF and then regen. If a Jedi can not beat you and has to cloak to regen what is the point. When she/he comes back you will have regened all your pools as well, plus cleared some filling for more food. So it's just starting from scratch. If they were gonna lose the first time it probably wont change the second time.
In GCW battles you can take down cloakers easily since they lack defenses and a rifle salvo from 3 or 4 rifleman easily drops them.
For BH / Jedi encounters you miss the point entirely. A cloaker will not come back to fight the BH if he used cloak to escape. The BH needs to chase him and engage him again - why would a Jedi come back to be slaughtered.
If the Jedi used cloak as a counter to being rooted / kited, the BH who stays until the Jedi decloaks right next to him to land a KD / Armor Break / Power Hit / Head Hit combo deserves to die. Better run in the opposite direction next time when a Jedi manages to cloak - it could have been to negate the first strike capability of the BH.
If you read the op he describes a situation where the Jedi cloaks, regens and then attacks again. This does happen, but not all Jedi use it in that manner. My idea of how cloak would work would not change anything to a Jedi who runs with no intention of re-engaging his attacker. He would escape to safety, uncloak in a safe area and regen. It would also not effect the ability to gank a cloaker before he can cloak. All it would change is the described scenario in the op. What it would do is define cloak as a method of escape. Basically the same as the change to AI to make it a last stand, win or lose special, it just defines it's role.Before anyone asks, I am a Master Defender and have only used AI in a fight to the death role. Have never used AI as a means of escape in a PvP encounter, only used it a few times in the early days of curb as a PvE escape tool, but was still testing what lvl of mobs could be handled solo. I do not have cloak, nor do I have a problem with the way cloak works now. Just tossed out an idea based on the op.
The problem is that Force Wielders rely on hit and run attacks because they dont have the offensive capabilities lightsabers have nor do they have a lot of Defender because Powers usually relies on Enhancers to make up the higher Force costs of attacks. They need cloak to be useable in the exact way the original poster described.
Yeah, unfortunately.
But most people become pretty quiet and stop crying for nerfs at least in the thread such points are made - and even if they dont stop crying for a nerf and a dev actually reads such a thread, he at least reads those points, also.
Eskie wrote:
Tucheck wrote:
LintonLisa wrote:cloak is a huge investment of skills, any jedi with cloak is much much weaker in pvp than most other jedi. The only advantage they have is being able to run.
Its a combat ability, why remove it?
If a Jedi wants to use it to run it can be vey frustrationg for the BH, BUT I'll agree it is a valid escape tactic. However, to use it as a "mobile house" so they can regen Force and get "re-buffed" to re-fight a battle they already lost once (well "lost" enough that they had to "run).
I personally would have pulled out a speeder and a creature mount as well as anything I could to cause the force to drain. Then applied some CM DOTs that will still "tick" while the Jedi is cloaked.
If you want to use Claok to escape, then the Jedi should do JUST that.
Everything fair game except the CM DOT stuff. Applying CM DOTs after a Jedi cloaked is exploiting.
I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. What I was trying to imply was that I would do EVERYTHING I could to break the Cloak, THEN apply the DOTs...that way, even though the Jedi is cloaked....SOME damage will be done to mitigate the regen of Force.
Tucheck wrote:
Eskie wrote:
Tucheck wrote:
LintonLisa wrote:cloak is a huge investment of skills, any jedi with cloak is much much weaker in pvp than most other jedi. The only advantage they have is being able to run.
Its a combat ability, why remove it?
If a Jedi wants to use it to run it can be vey frustrationg for the BH, BUT I'll agree it is a valid escape tactic. However, to use it as a "mobile house" so they can regen Force and get "re-buffed" to re-fight a battle they already lost once (well "lost" enough that they had to "run).
I personally would have pulled out a speeder and a creature mount as well as anything I could to cause the force to drain. Then applied some CM DOTs that will still "tick" while the Jedi is cloaked.
If you want to use Claok to escape, then the Jedi should do JUST that.
Everything fair game except the CM DOT stuff. Applying CM DOTs after a Jedi cloaked is exploiting.
I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. What I was trying to imply was that I would do EVERYTHING I could to break the Cloak, THEN apply the DOTs...that way, even though the Jedi is cloaked....SOME damage will be done to mitigate the regen of Force.
Oh, ok - nothing wrong with doing that then
