Bounty Hunter Archive

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SamousNemo wrote:

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chryd4436 wrote:

While what you say is true, it is also true that increasing your skill mods (with tapes and other items) was

not meant to replace higher level skills. This defeats the purpose of the skill trees. A person with basic

medic skills should not be able to heal as well as someone who has spent skill points in doctor, assuming

their HE is the same. Elite professions don't just get increased skill modifiers; they are supposed to get

better skills as well. This is the benefit of spending skill points in doctor or combat medic rather than just

buying tapes, droids, and foods.

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What should have been done is increase the curve of returns out for advanced version of bacta shot instead of decreasing the curve inwards for standard version.

That way a MD with +25 HE tapes would heal using Adv BS for much more than a Med xx4x with +25 HE tapes using Standard BS

Of course decreasing the curve for St. BS has the same effect (MDs healing for more than a M xx4x/+25), but would have been making skills better instead of nerfing them.

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You would have to ask the devs why they fixed it the way they did, or see if someone has already asked

them this question. My guess (and it's only a guess) would be that they considered increasing the

effectiveness of the adv. healing skills to be potentially unbalancing.

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mmaness wrote:

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Jedi_Xan wrote:

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Jagdwulf wrote:

Skillpoints.

A couple weeks ago, there were posts on these forums about people experimenting with the following template:

MBH/MR/P0004/Medic 0020

It used up all your skill points and wasn't much medic. These same folks discovered that if you grabbed a bunch of nice Healing Efficiency tapes....you were still getting fabulous heals.

So in essence, they were able to keep the rifleman abilities, still grab the pistoleer root, and still be able to have some pretty nice heals.

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The problem was, someone started complaining because medic xx2x healed for more than Jedi/Dr (not true)/CM (not true). The real issue is that it wasnt bacta shot that was the problem. Bacta shot is/was fine. The problem is that people completely overlooked +25 HE and the elite medical professions have diminishing returns, which means with +25 HE and a Droid are not as effective for a doc or cm, as they would be for a xx2x medic.

It is a shame. Something got nerfed that was working exactly as it was supposed to. That is, afterall, what skill tapes are for.

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It wasn't working as intended as everyone was getting heals based on the advanced form of each skills... it just wasn't an issue until the Jedi whined once Medic healing got beefed up and people were pumping them full of charged plasma and heaing for 1k. I've always noticed it wasnt working as intended but no one seemed to care except Master Docs and MCM, until the Jedi came in the picture .... AND THE CYCLE CONTINUES! /sigh

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Look. The reason (((( REASON))))) that medic xx2x was gettting good heals is because in addition to the+15 HE that medic xx2x gave, add +25 HE from the skill tape as well. That is +40 HE by itself. Medic xx4x + 25 HE is +50 HE. CM 4xxx is +65 HE. A CM 4xxx could heal for 500 more damage than a medic xx2x with +25 HE. This is not broken, and is right inline with the way the system worked. +40 HE vs +65 HE is about 500 pts.

Doc can easily outheal both a Medic at any level, and a CM. Where is the problem.

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AviStetto wrote:

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Ternque01 wrote:

Okay, aside from Bacta Shot, which is neither CM or Doc profession specific, all lower level healing specials NOT specific to your healing profession are getting nerfed.

Word on the street is that Bacta Shot is getting nerfed for EVERYONE: MCM's, MD's, and dabblers.

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"Word on the street" isn't exactly correct on this one. The healing values for the Advanced version of the heals are not changing. Master Doctors will continue to heal for the same amount of damage using Advanced Bacta Shot as they have been since Publish 19. The same is true for Master Doctors using Advanced Bacta Jab, Combat Medics with at least 3000 using Advanced Bacta Toss and Combat Medics with at least 4000 using Advanced Bacta Spray.

Novice Medics (with a total Healing Efficiency of 5)using the standard Bacta Shot will also continue to heal for very close to the same amount as they have since Publish 19.

Players with a Healing Efficiency greater than 5 will see a decrease in the amount of damage healed when using standard or Improved Bacta heals. The actual amount of that decrease will depend on the level of the heal and the value of the player's Healing Efficiency.

Right now, all players are using the function values for the Advanced version of the heal to calculate the amount of damage healed. This change addresses that issue by using differing function valuesbased onthe level of the heal ability.

-Avi Stetto

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chryd4436 wrote:

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SamousNemo wrote:

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chryd4436 wrote:

While what you say is true, it is also true that increasing your skill mods (with tapes and other items) was

not meant to replace higher level skills. This defeats the purpose of the skill trees. A person with basic

medic skills should not be able to heal as well as someone who has spent skill points in doctor, assuming

their HE is the same. Elite professions don't just get increased skill modifiers; they are supposed to get

better skills as well. This is the benefit of spending skill points in doctor or combat medic rather than just

buying tapes, droids, and foods.

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What should have been done is increase the curve of returns out for advanced version of bacta shot instead of decreasing the curve inwards for standard version.

That way a MD with +25 HE tapes would heal using Adv BS for much more than a Med xx4x with +25 HE tapes using Standard BS

Of course decreasing the curve for St. BS has the same effect (MDs healing for more than a M xx4x/+25), but would have been making skills better instead of nerfing them.

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You would have to ask the devs why they fixed it the way they did, or see if someone has already asked

them this question. My guess (and it's only a guess) would be that they considered increasing the

effectiveness of the adv. healing skills to be potentially unbalancing.

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While I agree that there is probably a better approach to have fixed the healing issue, I still do not understand where you think that someone who invests their hard earned credits, or time, to obtaining +25HE SEA's to get an enhanced heal is unbalanced. They are not using a basic skill. If you put it in the context you have, then using SEA's to get a 300+ Melee Def/Ranged Def is unbalanced; or getting a SEA for +25 Artisan Experimentation would be unbalanced. That simply isnt the case. It skill is the same, just enhanced.

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Jedi_Xan wrote:

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chryd4436 wrote:

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SamousNemo wrote:

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chryd4436 wrote:

While what you say is true, it is also true that increasing your skill mods (with tapes and other items) was

not meant to replace higher level skills. This defeats the purpose of the skill trees. A person with basic

medic skills should not be able to heal as well as someone who has spent skill points in doctor, assuming

their HE is the same. Elite professions don't just get increased skill modifiers; they are supposed to get

better skills as well. This is the benefit of spending skill points in doctor or combat medic rather than just

buying tapes, droids, and foods.

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What should have been done is increase the curve of returns out for advanced version of bacta shot instead of decreasing the curve inwards for standard version.

That way a MD with +25 HE tapes would heal using Adv BS for much more than a Med xx4x with +25 HE tapes using Standard BS

Of course decreasing the curve for St. BS has the same effect (MDs healing for more than a M xx4x/+25), but would have been making skills better instead of nerfing them.

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You would have to ask the devs why they fixed it the way they did, or see if someone has already asked

them this question. My guess (and it's only a guess) would be that they considered increasing the

effectiveness of the adv. healing skills to be potentially unbalancing.

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While I agree that there is probably a better approach to have fixed the healing issue, I still do not understand where you think that someone who invests their hard earned credits, or time, to obtaining +25HE SEA's to get an enhanced heal is unbalanced. They are not using a basic skill. If you put it in the context you have, then using SEA's to get a 300+ Melee Def/Ranged Def is unbalanced; or getting a SEA for +25 Artisan Experimentation would be unbalanced. That simply isnt the case. It skill is the same, just enhanced.

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I didn't say I think the skill or using tapes is unbalanced. Samous asked why didn't the devs also change

the healing formulas when they differentiated the basic, improved, and advanced healing skills to reduce

what players would feel to be a nerf to healing. His suggestion would increase the effectiveness of the

adv. heals to something greater than what they are now. My response was that I don't know why they

didn't do that, but my guess is they felt it might unbalance the adv. heals.

What is unbalancing is the original bug and for the reason I outlined before. You should not be able

to use tapes to get around the skill trees. If your HE is the same, improved bacta shot should work

better than the basic version, and right now it doesn't. Otherwise, the skill points used to get the

improved or adv. version of bacta shot are just a waste. While most players benefit from this bug,

MD or MCMs are hurt by it because they have skill points tied up in skills that do nothing. While you

spent millions of credits on SEAs, those skill points are worth a lot more, in my opinion.

MCM/MBH - It affected me by a "slight" 300 points off my bactashot. I'm sure it affects Novice Medics more, but 300 points is more than just a "slight" difference.

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-Sojourn- wrote:

MCM/MBH - It affected me by a "slight" 300 points off my bactashot. I'm sure it affects Novice Medics more, but 300 points is more than just a "slight" difference.

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I agree its not slight, in a long fight or in group fighting you are forced to heal more and expend more mind, and MCM already dont have a low mind cost heal, so we use up mind like crazy! Thats why i have a petition going on in the MCM forum about giving MCM improved bacta shot.

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Jedi_Xan wrote:

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chryd4436 wrote:

I didn't say I think the skill or using tapes is unbalanced. Samous asked why didn't the devs also change

the healing formulas when they differentiated the basic, improved, and advanced healing skills to reduce

what players would feel to be a nerf to healing. His suggestion would increase the effectiveness of the

adv. heals to something greater than what they are now. My response was that I don't know why they

didn't do that, but my guess is they felt it might unbalance the adv. heals.

What is unbalancing is the original bug and for the reason I outlined before. You should not be able

to use tapes to get around the skill trees. If your HE is the same, improved bacta shot should work

better than the basic version, and right now it doesn't. Otherwise, the skill points used to get the

improved or adv. version of bacta shot are just a waste. While most players benefit from this bug,

MD or MCMs are hurt by it because they have skill points tied up in skills that do nothing. While you

spent millions of credits on SEAs, those skill points are worth a lot more, in my opinion.

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So really, all they should have done was balance out the other skills. It seems it was kinda harsh on the newbs to nerf the basic heal. Newbies need that heal to stay alive worse than we do.

Not so much trying to say SEA's should get around skill points, but rather, SEA's should reflect enhancment on all skills, up to and including MD and MCM. I mean, after all, you are adding +25 HE to any given skill, you should expect +25 additional HE, right?

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Some tests:

With Medic 0020 + 25 HE Tapes I was healing for 890 with Bacta Shot.

Throwing in an additional +17 from Aitha (lasts 5 minutes for 16 drink fill) I had a HE of 57 total and was healing for close to 1000.

So indeed its a nerf but not much at that imo.

Bring on the defenders, tought to be beat, but Ill be damned if they beat me.

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Jedi_Xan wrote:

So really, all they should have done was balance out the other skills. It seems it was kinda harsh on the newbs to nerf the basic heal. Newbies need that heal to stay alive worse than we do.

Not so much trying to say SEA's should get around skill points, but rather, SEA's should reflect enhancment on all skills, up to and including MD and MCM. I mean, after all, you are adding +25 HE to any given skill, you should expect +25 additional HE, right?

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They did balance the skills, just not in the direction that some folks would have liked.

I don't think this hurts newbies too badly. They usually don't have the resources to significantly

increase HE, but the biggest reason it doesn't impact them as much is that they only start out with

1000 health to begin with. The basic bacta shot still heals a good percentage of the 1000 health, 3000

health not so much.

I agree that using skill tapes to increase your effectiveness with skills should give you a boost to

your skills and there is nothing wrong or unbalancing about that as every player can do that, if they

wish. With this publish, increasing your HE still improves on the heals done by the basic bacta

shot; nothing wrong with that. It just doesn't improve the heals as much because the formula

used is not the one used for the adv. bacta shot anymore.

i agree.....with this *nerf* the DEVS..just made the 'skilltapes' useless. why even have them ingame?

/thank you whiners for destroying..yet another great feature.