Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Beware the Return of White-Named Marks
Blixtev wrote:
SamousNemo wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
AZFisher wrote:
This is way too cool.My altcan get a BH mission and kill it with my Jedi. Any idea what quality those crystals were?
Many old time BH's will remember the old method of Bounty Hunting where you and only you could damage the Mark. We just got done hooking this back up. To everyone else but the BH the mark will appear white. The intent of these missions was to follow a very cannon style experience of the solo Boba Fett Bounty Hunter vs the target. The loot quality and drop rates are too favorable to let these missions be farmed en masse by large groups. I just would like to know from the players who have been testing these if they are able to win vs the Boss level Marks.
These missions are intended to be challenging with the Mark always a few levels higher than the difficulty of the mission.
Message Edited by Blixtev on 07-27-200506:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, butdidn't the old system constantly fail and the mark's name was white to the hunter as well? I was under the impression that this bug was never fixed and instead theTEF was just removed altogether so that the hunter was guaranteed an attackabletarget (albeit one attackable to everyone).
So does this mean we will soon see the re-emergence of the infamous "white named marks"?
Recap:
To protectthe "phat lewt" that will be dropping from our NPC marks post-Pub 21, the Devs are re-instating an old system that would only allow the BH to attack/loot the mark. Unfortunately this old system would constantly bug and the mark wouldn't even be attackableby the hunter with the mission. As of right now the old system is on TC, but the testers haven't come across the bug yet (should it still exist) and therefore haven't been able to fix it.
So basically this is just a heads-up to anyone running the NPC bounties in the future. Keep an eye out for "white-named" marks that are unattackable during your bounty hunting.
SamousNemo wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
SamousNemo wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
AZFisher wrote:
This is way too cool.My altcan get a BH mission and kill it with my Jedi. Any idea what quality those crystals were?
Many old time BH's will remember the old method of Bounty Hunting where you and only you could damage the Mark. We just got done hooking this back up. To everyone else but the BH the mark will appear white. The intent of these missions was to follow a very cannon style experience of the solo Boba Fett Bounty Hunter vs the target. The loot quality and drop rates are too favorable to let these missions be farmed en masse by large groups. I just would like to know from the players who have been testing these if they are able to win vs the Boss level Marks.
These missions are intended to be challenging with the Mark always a few levels higher than the difficulty of the mission.
Message Edited by Blixtev on 07-27-200506:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, butdidn't the old system constantly fail and the mark's name was white to the hunter as well? I was under the impression that this bug was never fixed and instead theTEF was just removed altogether so that the hunter was guaranteed an attackabletarget (albeit one attackable to everyone).
So does this mean we will soon see the re-emergence of the infamous "white named marks"?
Removing the feature is how the "white mark" problem was solved. "H" and I were unable to replicate the "white mark" issue in our internal testing. I am hoping if it crops back up we can find out why they do not set their TEF vs the BH correctly, instead of yanking the feature. If anyone sees this behaviour on Test please shoot up the flare gun and we will try to jump on it, information like where mission was taken, what planet you went to,how long it took you to get to themark etc, would be very useful if this is seen.
Recap:
To protectthe "phat lewt" that will be dropping from our NPC marks post-Pub 21, the Devs are re-instating an old system that would only allow the BH to attack/loot the mark. Unfortunately this old system would constantly bug and the mark wouldn't even be attackableby the hunter with the mission. As of right now the old system is on TC, but the testers haven't come across the bug yet (should it still exist) and therefore haven't been able to fix it.
So basically this is just a heads-up to anyone running the NPC bounties in the future. Keep an eye out for "white-named" marks that are unattackable during your bounty hunting.
I like that they re-implemented this. If they kept it at it is, then these types of mission would only degrade MBH to nothing more than a mission-puller for mass farming groups. From what I've read, these marks are going to be extremely difficult -- like solo'ing a Krayt Dragon. Very few MBH's have the proper template and equipment to solo such things, thus, keeping the TEF only with the mission holder will ensure that the high quality drops will remain rare and more valuable to the person who looted it.
Message Edited by shadowdragon2k on 07-28-2005 05:44 PM
OhBuggah wrote:
I like that they re-implemented this. If they kept it at it is, then these types of mission would only degrade MBH to nothing more than a mission-puller for mass farming groups. From what I've read, these marks are going to be extremely difficult -- like solo'ing a Krayt Dragon. Very few MBH's have the proper template and equipment to solo such things, thus, keeping the TEF only with the mission holder will ensure that the high quality drops will remain rare and more valuable to the person who looted it.
So if you dont have the uber FOTM template it's something that you cant do ?
Let's see, make taking jedi missions much harder, eliminate the ability to group. Make NPC missions harder ( good idea by the way ) but make it so only a few, with the "proper" template able to do it ?
If this is a MMORPG, then why does it seem that everything SOE puts in to the game, is pushing MBH back towards a solo profession ?
I know I'm a casual gamer, and I know I dont have the best equipment ( good enough for 90% of what I try to do ) but I paired MBH with Smuggler, because frankly, I liked the idea, it's the ultimate of the underworld. Personally, I really dont care about the great loots. I'd prefer that they be kept far, ( and I do mean far ) and few between, and make the marks extremely hard, and still let me group with the friend I'm usually playing with. Just make the mark that much harder if you are grouped.....
Just seems like SOE cant make up there mind, on one hand they want it to resemble KoToR, and on the other they still are under the impression that this is a MMORPG. They just go back and forth....
*shrug*
Ekul05 wrote:
So if you dont have the uber FOTM template it's something that you cant do ?
No. If you are something like a Master Weaponsmith/Master Bounty Hunter, then it's something you can't do. If you don't have the best armor, best weapons, best foods and doctor buffs, then it's something you can't do. I'm sure any double elite combat profession master can kill one of these marks if the bounty hunter knows his specials intimately.
Let's see, make taking jedi missions much harder, eliminate the ability to group. Make NPC missions harder ( good idea by the way ) but make it so only a few, with the "proper" template able to do it ?
If this is a MMORPG, then why does it seem that everything SOE puts in to the game, is pushing MBH back towards a solo profession ?
No, they've already stated their vision of the bounty hunter's relationship to the mark (PvP or PvE mark): That they see encounters with a mark as something epic along the lines of Boba Fett in the movies. Boba Fett never ran in a gank squad, thus the Dev's reasoning for pushing Jedi missions and PvE missions into a solo gameplay.
I know I'm a casual gamer, and I know I dont have the best equipment ( good enough for 90% of what I try to do ) but I paired MBH with Smuggler, because frankly, I liked the idea, it's the ultimate of the underworld. Personally, I really dont care about the great loots. I'd prefer that they be kept far, ( and I do mean far ) and few between, and make the marks extremely hard, and still let me group with the friend I'm usually playing with. Just make the mark that much harder if you are grouped.....
Just seems like SOE cant make up there mind, on one hand they want it to resemble KoToR, and on the other they still are under the impression that this is a MMORPG. They just go back and forth....
I don't think the Devs want the game to resemble KoTor. But what they DO want is for the playerbase to be happy, and for everyone who wants to live out their wish-fulfillment to become a Jedi, to be able to -- which is a LARGE segment of the playerbase, hence why there are so many Jedi running around.
SamousNemo wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
SamousNemo wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
AZFisher wrote:
This is way too cool.My altcan get a BH mission and kill it with my Jedi. Any idea what quality those crystals were?
Many old time BH's will remember the old method of Bounty Hunting where you and only you could damage the Mark. We just got done hooking this back up. To everyone else but the BH the mark will appear white. The intent of these missions was to follow a very cannon style experience of the solo Boba Fett Bounty Hunter vs the target. The loot quality and drop rates are too favorable to let these missions be farmed en masse by large groups. I just would like to know from the players who have been testing these if they are able to win vs the Boss level Marks.
These missions are intended to be challenging with the Mark always a few levels higher than the difficulty of the mission.
Message Edited by Blixtev on 07-27-200506:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, butdidn't the old system constantly fail and the mark's name was white to the hunter as well? I was under the impression that this bug was never fixed and instead theTEF was just removed altogether so that the hunter was guaranteed an attackabletarget (albeit one attackable to everyone).
So does this mean we will soon see the re-emergence of the infamous "white named marks"?
Removing the feature is how the "white mark" problem was solved. "H" and I were unable to replicate the "white mark" issue in our internal testing. I am hoping if it crops back up we can find out why they do not set their TEF vs the BH correctly, instead of yanking the feature. If anyone sees this behaviour on Test please shoot up the flare gun and we will try to jump on it, information like where mission was taken, what planet you went to,how long it took you to get to themark etc, would be very useful if this is seen.
Recap:
To protectthe "phat lewt" that will be dropping from our NPC marks post-Pub 21, the Devs are re-instating an old system that would only allow the BH to attack/loot the mark. Unfortunately this old system would constantly bug and the mark wouldn't even be attackableby the hunter with the mission. As of right now the old system is on TC, but the testers haven't come across the bug yet (should it still exist) and therefore haven't been able to fix it.
So basically this is just a heads-up to anyone running the NPC bounties in the future. Keep an eye out for "white-named" marks that are unattackable during your bounty hunting.
in testing efforts people need to do silly stuff like log out of the game and back in or /quit out and come back in while tracking a mark... or duel before getting in range of the mark.. may sound random but these could all affect the white mark issues...
OhBuggah wrote:
Ekul05 wrote:
So if you dont have the uber FOTM template it's something that you cant do ?
No. If you are something like a Master Weaponsmith/Master Bounty Hunter, then it's something you can't do. If you don't have the best armor, best weapons, best foods and doctor buffs, then it's something you can't do. I'm sure any double elite combat profession master can kill one of these marks if the bounty hunter knows his specials intimately.
Actually, I was responding your comment about "proper template". Your comment was that it would be for a proper template, and to be honest, that got under my skin, as if anyone can say that there is any "proper" template. If that was the case, then I'm sure it would be the only type of BH that could be played, fortunately, there is no proper.
Let's see, make taking jedi missions much harder, eliminate the ability to group. Make NPC missions harder ( good idea by the way ) but make it so only a few, with the "proper" template able to do it ?
If this is a MMORPG, then why does it seem that everything SOE puts in to the game, is pushing MBH back towards a solo profession ?
No, they've already stated their vision of the bounty hunter's relationship to the mark (PvP or PvE mark): That they see encounters with a mark as something epic along the lines of Boba Fett in the movies. Boba Fett never ran in a gank squad, thus the Dev's reasoning for pushing Jedi missions and PvE missions into a solo gameplay.
In the past SOE has stated many things, and they've never had a clear direction, to believe anything else is pretty silly.It's a shame that any kind of grouping is instantly a "gank squad." Using the movie as epic, and Boba Fett really dont do a whole lot for me, after all, Boba failed miserably in the end, and really, he did nothing incredible, now Jango on the other hand.... If you draw from the EU, even Boba ran with Dengar for a time, and there were plenty of Bounty Hunting duo's. No reason to try to make something epic that doesnt need to be, or to perscribe a certain playstyle to a profession that doesnt demand it. Jedi deserve far more attention in that regard.....
If I wanted to play a solo bounty hunter, I'd go play that console Star Wars Bounty Hunter game, I'm playing SWG because I enjoy playing with other people, you know, MMORPG ?
I know I'm a casual gamer, and I know I dont have the best equipment ( good enough for 90% of what I try to do ) but I paired MBH with Smuggler, because frankly, I liked the idea, it's the ultimate of the underworld. Personally, I really dont care about the great loots. I'd prefer that they be kept far, ( and I do mean far ) and few between, and make the marks extremely hard, and still let me group with the friend I'm usually playing with. Just make the mark that much harder if you are grouped.....
Just seems like SOE cant make up there mind, on one hand they want it to resemble KoToR, and on the other they still are under the impression that this is a MMORPG. They just go back and forth....
I don't think the Devs want the game to resemble KoTor. But what they DO want is for the playerbase to be happy, and for everyone who wants to live out their wish-fulfillment to become a Jedi, to be able to -- which is a LARGE segment of the playerbase, hence why there are so many Jedi running around.
I think they do want it to resemble KoToR because that's one of the few places where you get the impression that Jedi are common, and are not to be made special. By making something common, you devalue it, make it worth less. I think people will always want to have a jedi, no arguing that, but to be completly honest, the largest player base this game had, was pre-jedi. Had SOE kept jedi rare, and focused on fixing things as opposed to making Jedi common we'd be in a much better game right now. With more competition, substandard reviews, and many critics of the current, and past dev team, SOE is going in a direction to put money in their pockets, by increasing subscriptions, and this is probably the easiest way for them to do it. Of course just because it's easy doesnt mean it's best for it's long term health, it's about profits now, not making a better game, that'll reap the rewards in a couple of years. Gotta have numbers to compete today...
It's a MMORPG, no matter the direction that they choose to go with Jedi. Content and professions, pretty much all of them should be able to have the benefits of grouping to do things should they choose.
Lastly, I had to highlight the part about how SOE wants their playerbase to be happy. If this was EQ2, I'd be behind that statement 110%. Remember though, I said earlier I'm a smuggler as well as a BH, it's pretty difficult to convince me that the dev's have the ENTIRE playerbases's satisfaction in mind, and desire to keep it happy. It's 2+ years, we still cant smuggle, slicing is still broken, and after 5 months of discussing ideas, and revamp ideas, SOE went a completely different direction, and still slicing is broke, and we're waiting for revamp.
What I think the true statement is, is not what you said, it's this: SOE needs to attract new subscribers, and it's easier and costs less to give them what they want, Jedi, than it is to fix their other problems with the game. Knowing that, they still wont get back to the numbers of subscribers they had pre-jedi, because they've spent 2 years jerking around subscribers, not listening to them, and leaving too many broken aspects of the game. It's easier to advertise Jedi to the unwary, than to overcome their poor reputation they have earned to date with this product.
Will I leave ? Eventually, when I run out of things to do, and the amazing thing, is that unless I embrace Jedi, those things to do, are gradually taken away.....
Message Edited by Ekul05 on 07-28-2005 09:19 PM
From the beginning in this game the design for bounty hunters has been solo hunters. Yes, there are examples in the EU of bounty hunters working in groups, even Boba Fett did it. However,Blixtev reiterated the intent to have the missions be solo in his posts this week. Accept it or move on. Once again a player confuses 'multiplayer' with 'requires a group'. You're still interacting with all those other players out there through buying, selling, buffing, grouping for exp, etc. The bounty hunting mechanic is one of the aspects of the game that was intended for soloing by design.
Ekul05 wrote:
In the past SOE has stated many things, and they've never had a clear direction, to believe anything else is pretty silly.It's a shame that any kind of grouping is instantly a "gank squad." Using the movie as epic, and Boba Fett really dont do a whole lot for me, after all, Boba failed miserably in the end, and really, he did nothing incredible, now Jango on the other hand.... If you draw from the EU, even Boba ran with Dengar for a time, and there were plenty of Bounty Hunting duo's. No reason to try to make something epic that doesnt need to be, or to perscribe a certain playstyle to a profession that doesnt demand it. Jedi deserve far more attention in that regard.....
If I wanted to play a solo bounty hunter, I'd go play that console Star Wars Bounty Hunter game, I'm playing SWG because I enjoy playing with other people, you know, MMORPG ?
Message Edited by Ekul05 on 07-28-2005 09:19 PM
OhBuggah wrote:
I don't think the Devs want the game to resemble KoTor. But what they DO want is for the playerbase to be happy, and for everyone who wants to live out their wish-fulfillment to become a Jedi, to be able to -- which is a LARGE segment of the playerbase, hence why there are so many Jedi running around.
If this game is about vicarious Jedi, they should have set it in another timeframe.
If it's about pandering to Jedi, they should make it a starting profession.
If YOU think it's what the game is or should be about, you'd be better off playing KotOR or Jedi Academy where you can be a Jedi right from the get-go.
For ME, it's about playing in the STAR WARS universe - you know, the one where Jedi were extinct?
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri)
SamousNemo wrote:
You are completely missing the point.
Yes, this could potentially make it so only Bounty Hunters can get to the loot. However it could also potentially make 50% of our bounties unattackable. They're going back to an old buggy system that hasn't been fully tested yet, which is bad.
What good is loot if we can't get to it?
Fifty percent you say? That's nowhere near the rate at which the old marks were unattackable. One of the things I did when I was working on my first bounty hunter (when the missions were most buggy) was to document the results of every mission I took, whether I finished them or failed them for whatever reason. Out of the hundreds of missions needed to hit master back then I found the rate for unattackable white marks to be roughly 10%. That's still not good, but given most of the other bugs plaguing bounty hunter missions have been fixed I would expect the new missions to be less buggy.
Message Edited by FaceInTheCrowd on 07-29-2005 05:28 AM
FaceInTheCrowd wrote:
Edit: I just went back and reviewed my numbers quickly. Out of about 350 missions attempted between August and November 2003, when the missions still had some very bad bugs, I had exactly 4 white mark missions. That's not 10%, it's just over 1%. I would call that fairly acceptable and not a big issue at all.
That was YOU. Some of us encountered it far more often. I'm so glad to hear that you didn't have a "big issue" with bugs, did you know that your experiences didn't make it any easier for me to complete MBH?
During the time period you describe, I don't remember too many bugged missions either. Then again, I started BH around Publish 4, and finished it around Publish 9 - by which time it was so bad, I was ready to quit not only BH, but SWG altogether.
Let's hope that bug doesn't crop up again.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
That was YOU. Some of us encountered it far more often. I'm so glad to hear that you didn't have a "big issue" with bugs, did you know that your experiences didn't make it any easier for me to complete MBH?
During the time period you describe, I don't remember too many bugged missions either. Then again, I started BH around Publish 4, and finished it around Publish 9 - by which time it was so bad, I was ready to quit not only BH, but SWG altogether.
Let's hope that bug doesn't crop up again.
Do you have any hard data to support your claims of how bad it was? I mean, I remember very vividly the ones that were bugged. They stand out in your mind and that's all you think about. I have always suspected the claims of people that a very high percentage of their missions were bad. No data = no proof. Now, maybe I was somehow a luckier bounty hunter, but I don't see a whole lot of things I did that others weren't doing that could have somehow impacted the outcome of my missions. My point is people remember all the bad stuff but without any actual numbers to back it up talking about percentages is just wrong.
By publish 9 the major issue with bounty hunter missions wasn't white marks, it was 'invisible' marks. That was an entirely different issue. I was also doing missions and collecting data during that time. It seemed like I had a huge number of invisible marks, but in my collected data there really weren't that many (I'm at work now, so I can't give you any numbers). The memories of the ones that failed easily override the many, many more marks that were successful missions.
Message Edited by FaceInTheCrowd on 07-29-2005 08:30 AM