Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: THE REALITY OF THE BH / JEDI SYSTEM
Page 1 of 3
WoLpAcK
Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:25 am
#1
I just finished testing some things on my jedi friend whos a former m defender but now only dabbles in it. He also has mls and some enhancer i think.
Im assuming that every1 realises kinetic is the best damage against jedi so...
We found when using a 1000 max kinetic pistolwith force armour removed and aura removed...bio clothing removed (didnt make much difference) that the damage was hitting with critical between a range of 455 - 655. This is when theshots hit as mls was blocking about 1 in4.However this would hit the normal full armourwearing non jedi for 988 ...so you see a natural damage defense there.
this is the scary bit..
I then asked the jedi to put on aura and force armour and bio clothing...No food whatsoever...and this is the result...
The original 455 - 655 range of damagebecame 124 - 225. I missed atleast 4 shots in a row every time before a hit andhad the 1 in 4 blocks on top due to mls.Also my accuracy is good enough to be hitting every time and i was using accuracy food.
This meant that the jedi would more a less heal by regen ( without food ) by the time my next shot would get through.
Then it was his turn to try out the damage of his ls. While wearing full layered ubese armour with 8k resists to energy i was continually hit for 900 damage. Then with armour break it turned to a continual 1200 damage --- you begin to heal instead of shoot and at that point its over. By the way this jedi has no exceptional ls / pearls ...its an ordinary saber.
Now i started thinking, how in the hell do you fight something like that....and by the way this guy has a non jedi pvper, bh/cm and i can beat him in every duel meaning that its not because this particular jedi is an amazing pvper. This does mean however that even the most stupid jedi can infact beat a well trained bh by knowing where the armour break button is.
It appears that bh's are really screwed in this new system, id like to believe that some bh's can defeat fully and close to fully templated jedi but i seriously doubt it. Unless hes afk or just lost the use of his arms while typing, the jedi will be victorious. It doesnt matter if you put both your cyber arms on pick up a rifle and start shooting 75m away he will root you and before you know it your dead. Also the whole catching a jedi by suprise or while they are low on force, well.....
It takes a jedi about 2 seconds to put on force aura and armour and i was shooting this jedi for bout 10 minutes and the amount he healed used 2% of his force ...so unless they are dueling other jedi they dont get low on force easily, and not that they need alot of force to kill you 
.
. Now although not every jedi has armour and aura, thejedi thatarent hiding in a house or on kashyyyk will...and it really just makes bh'in jedi pointless from my view and the above evidence proves it. It appears soe's plan of making us become loot whores instead of jedi killers has worked, shame.
Vecasius
Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:49 am
#3
It takes a very good BH to do it. This is as it should be. Or BH would be a completely unbalanced proff in pvp against other combat proffs.
Agenai
Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:52 am
#4
/cryincorner
Thanks for your testing there wolf, and it just goes to prove what a lot of us have suspected...guess we will have to go out and pay 90 million in adk's loot 9 mando intrawatsits and all have our armour, armour break sliced...
Still I guess if 30% of us can beat the market, we can make enough over the next few days from rare (but soon not to be) loot...not me tho...I'm at work
Thanks for your testing there wolf, and it just goes to prove what a lot of us have suspected...guess we will have to go out and pay 90 million in adk's loot 9 mando intrawatsits and all have our armour, armour break sliced...
Still I guess if 30% of us can beat the market, we can make enough over the next few days from rare (but soon not to be) loot...not me tho...I'm at work
FernGully
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:21 am
#5
To the OP...
You're listing numbers, but you're not listing ALL the numbers. If you're going to hold this one encounter you had up as a proof or "evidence" in defense of some point you're making, for god's sake, take the time to list everything out. What are the stats of this Jedi's saber? What's his exact template? What's your exact template? What's the MIN AND THE MAX damage on your kinetic gun (you are aware of how Aura works, right)? What were your total accuracy and defense mods at the time, and what were his? What specials were being used to generate those dmg numbers you threw out?
Further, what tactics did you use in this encounter? Please tell me they were more intricate than "Walk up to jedi, start spamming my highest damage special". If that's the way you fight, you're much better off with the NPC missions. Use your template and your abilities to your advantage.
As for your final conclusion, that hunting and killing full template jedi is impossible, well, forgive me if I don't buy it. DAILY, there are posts in this forum or the Jedi forum detailing instances where full template Jedi are hunted and killed successfully. It happens, and it happens daily, and it happens to non-afk Jedi who do have both arms.
That's not to say its easy. Its not, and its not meant to be. Its the end-game for the profession, hunting Jedi for big bucks. Even with recent nerfs, full template Jedi are still very formidable opponents. Are the odds in your favor of winning? No, no way! Should you be batting 1000 on Jedi missions, killing every one you take on, just like the NPC marks? No way, either. If you could/did, they'd nerf payouts way down. Its supposed to be hard, and you're not supposed to win em all (prolly not even MOST of them), and you're supposed to be rewarded well for the times you succeed (225k is a pretty good reward). If it was as sure a thing as a NPC mission, you'd get 30k for killing the Jedi, not 200k+.
You're listing numbers, but you're not listing ALL the numbers. If you're going to hold this one encounter you had up as a proof or "evidence" in defense of some point you're making, for god's sake, take the time to list everything out. What are the stats of this Jedi's saber? What's his exact template? What's your exact template? What's the MIN AND THE MAX damage on your kinetic gun (you are aware of how Aura works, right)? What were your total accuracy and defense mods at the time, and what were his? What specials were being used to generate those dmg numbers you threw out?
Further, what tactics did you use in this encounter? Please tell me they were more intricate than "Walk up to jedi, start spamming my highest damage special". If that's the way you fight, you're much better off with the NPC missions. Use your template and your abilities to your advantage.
As for your final conclusion, that hunting and killing full template jedi is impossible, well, forgive me if I don't buy it. DAILY, there are posts in this forum or the Jedi forum detailing instances where full template Jedi are hunted and killed successfully. It happens, and it happens daily, and it happens to non-afk Jedi who do have both arms.
That's not to say its easy. Its not, and its not meant to be. Its the end-game for the profession, hunting Jedi for big bucks. Even with recent nerfs, full template Jedi are still very formidable opponents. Are the odds in your favor of winning? No, no way! Should you be batting 1000 on Jedi missions, killing every one you take on, just like the NPC marks? No way, either. If you could/did, they'd nerf payouts way down. Its supposed to be hard, and you're not supposed to win em all (prolly not even MOST of them), and you're supposed to be rewarded well for the times you succeed (225k is a pretty good reward). If it was as sure a thing as a NPC mission, you'd get 30k for killing the Jedi, not 200k+.
myrmidon05
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:21 am
#6
Indeed. And I thank SOE for removing Premium and Flawless pearls.. My MLS friends with 550 dps that has good pearls/crystals already own me hard egnouth...
WoLpAcK
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:23 am
#7
yep ..its sad to see 4 bh's die while taking on a m defender and now i know why...but yes the npc missions are a change and im having fun looting the bh armour pieces and slicing tools to be able to get all my armour made for non jedi pvp 
WoLpAcK
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:32 am
#8
FernGully wrote:
To the OP...
You're listing numbers, but you're not listing ALL the numbers. If you're going to hold this one encounter you had up as a proof or "evidence" in defense of some point you're making, for god's sake, take the time to list everything out. What are the stats of this Jedi's saber? What's his exact template? What's your exact template? What's the MIN AND THE MAX damage on your kinetic gun (you are aware of how Aura works, right)? What were your total accuracy and defense mods at the time, and what were his? What specials were being used to generate those dmg numbers you threw out?
Further, what tactics did you use in this encounter? Please tell me they were more intricate than "Walk up to jedi, start spamming my highest damage special". If that's the way you fight, you're much better off with the NPC missions. Use your template and your abilities to your advantage.
As for your final conclusion, that hunting and killing full template jedi is impossible, well, forgive me if I don't buy it. DAILY, there are posts in this forum or the Jedi forum detailing instances where full template Jedi are hunted and killed successfully. It happens, and it happens daily, and it happens to non-afk Jedi who do have both arms.
That's not to say its easy. Its not, and its not meant to be. Its the end-game for the profession, hunting Jedi for big bucks. Even with recent nerfs, full template Jedi are still very formidable opponents. Are the odds in your favor of winning? No, no way! Should you be batting 1000 on Jedi missions, killing every one you take on, just like the NPC marks? No way, either. If you could/did, they'd nerf payouts way down. Its supposed to be hard, and you're not supposed to win em all (prolly not even MOST of them), and you're supposed to be rewarded well for the times you succeed (225k is a pretty good reward). If it was as sure a thing as a NPC mission, you'd get 30k for killing the Jedi, not 200k+.
your not a jedi are you?
Eskie
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:42 am
#9
WoLpAcK wrote:
FernGully wrote:
To the OP...
You're listing numbers, but you're not listing ALL the numbers. If you're going to hold this one encounter you had up as a proof or "evidence" in defense of some point you're making, for god's sake, take the time to list everything out. What are the stats of this Jedi's saber? What's his exact template? What's your exact template? What's the MIN AND THE MAX damage on your kinetic gun (you are aware of how Aura works, right)? What were your total accuracy and defense mods at the time, and what were his? What specials were being used to generate those dmg numbers you threw out?
Further, what tactics did you use in this encounter? Please tell me they were more intricate than "Walk up to jedi, start spamming my highest damage special". If that's the way you fight, you're much better off with the NPC missions. Use your template and your abilities to your advantage.
As for your final conclusion, that hunting and killing full template jedi is impossible, well, forgive me if I don't buy it. DAILY, there are posts in this forum or the Jedi forum detailing instances where full template Jedi are hunted and killed successfully. It happens, and it happens daily, and it happens to non-afk Jedi who do have both arms.
That's not to say its easy. Its not, and its not meant to be. Its the end-game for the profession, hunting Jedi for big bucks. Even with recent nerfs, full template Jedi are still very formidable opponents. Are the odds in your favor of winning? No, no way! Should you be batting 1000 on Jedi missions, killing every one you take on, just like the NPC marks? No way, either. If you could/did, they'd nerf payouts way down. Its supposed to be hard, and you're not supposed to win em all (prolly not even MOST of them), and you're supposed to be rewarded well for the times you succeed (225k is a pretty good reward). If it was as sure a thing as a NPC mission, you'd get 30k for killing the Jedi, not 200k+.
your not a jedi are you?
I guess youre trying to say he is biased. You are biased as well if you dont provide hard numbers. Maybe your friend used an exploited saber for these tests? Who knows?
WoLpAcK
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:47 am
#10
okay kinetic pistol max 1000 min 567 ..speed 1.21 action cost 65. Melee defence 265.. pistol accuracy from m pistoleer and m bh with + 15 in accuracy mods ..you work it out im not on game to add it up. Jedi has melee accuracy 285 ish and about 260 ranged ..like i said not in game he told me thisfew days ago. This is nothing more than a jedi with a full temp and no exploited ls or mods. Those are the facts and i expect jedi to argue this because they want to be doing 2k damage.
Eskie
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:12 am
#11
Ok, a few facts:
You cannot state your accuracy is good enough to hit every single time, because the chance to hit depends on your accuracy and your opponents defense, and you cannot influence your opponents defense. Aura adds 500 to his defense, thats why you missed 4 out of 5 whereas you only missed 1 out of 4 when he didnt use Aura.
You also need to state his defender and FS trees. When a normal player gets hit for X amount and he gets hit for Y amount this probably is not a "natural defense" but a ranged defense mod he has. You do know that the accuracy / defense ratio not just determines chance to hit, but also where in the damage range of your weapon the damage falls. The higher his ranged defense gets, the closer the damage you do will be to the min damage of your weapon. That is why you noticed a huge drop in damage when he activated Aura, but the same is true if you compare him to a regular toon who might have less ranged defense. You can lower this damage drop by choosing a weapon with a high min damage, though - 1000 max dmg are not relevant against a Defender, what really counts is if the min damage is 400 or 700.
Concerning the damage you take: 900 sounds about right without armor break, but you should also tell what attack he used so we know the damage modifier. Going from 900 to 1200 due to armor break also is to be expected. Nothing unusual here. But dont tell me your friend doesnt have a good saber, because to get that numbers you need around 650 max damage as far as I know. The truly great saber have around 710 to 720 max dmg.
You cannot state your accuracy is good enough to hit every single time, because the chance to hit depends on your accuracy and your opponents defense, and you cannot influence your opponents defense. Aura adds 500 to his defense, thats why you missed 4 out of 5 whereas you only missed 1 out of 4 when he didnt use Aura.
You also need to state his defender and FS trees. When a normal player gets hit for X amount and he gets hit for Y amount this probably is not a "natural defense" but a ranged defense mod he has. You do know that the accuracy / defense ratio not just determines chance to hit, but also where in the damage range of your weapon the damage falls. The higher his ranged defense gets, the closer the damage you do will be to the min damage of your weapon. That is why you noticed a huge drop in damage when he activated Aura, but the same is true if you compare him to a regular toon who might have less ranged defense. You can lower this damage drop by choosing a weapon with a high min damage, though - 1000 max dmg are not relevant against a Defender, what really counts is if the min damage is 400 or 700.
Concerning the damage you take: 900 sounds about right without armor break, but you should also tell what attack he used so we know the damage modifier. Going from 900 to 1200 due to armor break also is to be expected. Nothing unusual here. But dont tell me your friend doesnt have a good saber, because to get that numbers you need around 650 max damage as far as I know. The truly great saber have around 710 to 720 max dmg.
REDLION78
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:14 am
#12
This isall very sad really.
I dont doubt the fact that the odds are stacked in favor of the Jedi....always
FernGully
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:14 am
#13
WoLpAcK wrote:
FernGully wrote:
To the OP...
You're listing numbers, but you're not listing ALL the numbers. If you're going to hold this one encounter you had up as a proof or "evidence" in defense of some point you're making, for god's sake, take the time to list everything out. What are the stats of this Jedi's saber? What's his exact template? What's your exact template? What's the MIN AND THE MAX damage on your kinetic gun (you are aware of how Aura works, right)? What were your total accuracy and defense mods at the time, and what were his? What specials were being used to generate those dmg numbers you threw out?
Further, what tactics did you use in this encounter? Please tell me they were more intricate than "Walk up to jedi, start spamming my highest damage special". If that's the way you fight, you're much better off with the NPC missions. Use your template and your abilities to your advantage.
As for your final conclusion, that hunting and killing full template jedi is impossible, well, forgive me if I don't buy it. DAILY, there are posts in this forum or the Jedi forum detailing instances where full template Jedi are hunted and killed successfully. It happens, and it happens daily, and it happens to non-afk Jedi who do have both arms.
That's not to say its easy. Its not, and its not meant to be. Its the end-game for the profession, hunting Jedi for big bucks. Even with recent nerfs, full template Jedi are still very formidable opponents. Are the odds in your favor of winning? No, no way! Should you be batting 1000 on Jedi missions, killing every one you take on, just like the NPC marks? No way, either. If you could/did, they'd nerf payouts way down. Its supposed to be hard, and you're not supposed to win em all (prolly not even MOST of them), and you're supposed to be rewarded well for the times you succeed (225k is a pretty good reward). If it was as sure a thing as a NPC mission, you'd get 30k for killing the Jedi, not 200k+.
your not a jedi are you?
I have a Jedi character. I also have a non-Jedi character, but that really has no bearing on the points I brought up.
1) Give all the numbers if you're going to give some and call it "evidence",
2) Tactics count, and you didn't appear to use any from your account,
3) Regardless of what you or I think is possible or impossible, the REALITY is that full temp Jedi are killed daily by Bounty Hunters
4) Expect not to win every fight you have with a Jedi. They're supposed to be tough (1.5x as tough as you), and the odds are supposed to be against you. Its supposed to be a challenge, not a "sure thing" like NPC missions are.
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